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Can A Christian Vote For A Pro-Choice Candidate?
Can A Christian Vote For A Pro-Choice Candidate?Allen and I got into a heated email debate this past week. This time it wasn't about Nancy Grace, but rather abortion. With 4 days left until Election Day, I want to clarify something for all the Christians. Despite a long winded diatribe by the likes of Randy Alcorn and others out there, you can vote for a candidate that is pro-choice, even if you are pro-life.

This might get long. I apologize. But I promise to keep it shorter than Randy's article.

I should explain from the beginning that I am pro-life. The following argument isn't a pro-choice argument, but rather an argument that those who are pro-life can still vote for pro-choice candidates.

The President Doesn't Matter
Ever since Roe v. Wade, the abortion issue is no longer a legislative or executive decision. It is a Judicial decision - meaning it is up to the Supreme Court, not the President to change. Now it is true that the President can appoint pro-life justices, but even if they do overturn it, the situation only returns back to the states. There is no way California or New York or others will ever reliquish this. So if someone in a "pro-life" state wants an abortion, they just drive to a "pro-choice" state. So we aren't any better off.

God's Not That Pro-Life
My atheist friends always say that God is only pro-life if you don't read the Bible. I have to admit, they are sort of right. On numerous occasions in the Bible, God commands his people to kill people - including women and children. Not to mention God killed his own son Jesus as part of His plan of salvation.

Not only biblically speaking, but historically speaking. Think of all the people - including children - who were martyred because of their faith.

Why? Because God isn't afraid of death. If death is just a transition to eternity, why are we so afraid of it - God isn't.

God Himself Makes A Distinction Between A Fetus And Birth
Have you ever read Exodus 21?
Exodus: 21:22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Why does God make the distinction between a fetus and the rest of us? Becuase he isn't as pro-life as we have presented Him to be all these years.

Ridiculous Double Standard
But I am not the only one who can take scripture out of context. So can Alcorn and the like. For example, Alcorn uses Proverbs 6:16-19
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood...
Ohh wait, but that isn't the whole scripture now is it? The whole thing goes like this:
16 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
If we voted under that premise we couldn't elect anyone, including ourselves. The problem is we hold the innocent blood clause as more important than the others, but we shouldn't, because God doesn't.

And take for example the death penalty. Allen for one holds that the death penalty is morally wrong (which I am starting to agree). So if being pro-life is the trump card, how can you vote for someone who supports the death penalty (i.e. John McCain and George W. Bush).

Simple, because pro-life isn't the trump card.

Born and Unborn
At the Allen Hunt Show we have a cheesily worded, but extremely important cornerstone. The Allen Hunt Show will "care for all God' s children, born and unborn." But here is the dilemma. What if you believe that McCain is better for the unborn and Obama is better for the born?

I am not saying Obama is better for the born, but if you believe he is, you shouldn't feel less of a Christian just because you choose the plethora of issues wrapped in the "born" category versus the one issue of the unborn.

Conclusion
Abortion isn't the trump card. It is an important issue, but not the important issue. It is an issue among many. So feel free to vote for a pro-choice candidate for President if you desire. Alcorn may judge you, but God probably won't.



P.S. Check back soon for who I decided to vote for. I'll give you two hints: he's black and I finally figured out who it was because of two Europeans. Think you know. Don't count on it.
Comments
Erik
Sunday, November 2, 2008 01:03:09 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com Andy, if you continue to be this rational you are going to have a hard time with other Jesus people. They don't want truth or reason, they just want their prejudices reinforced. Jesus challenged the religious zealots- the Christian Coalition of his day- and it didn't turn out so well.

BTW- I don't want to steal your thunder, but I think I know who you are voting for, and I think it's interesting that no one in the media is excited at the prospect of him being the first black President.


Andy Borgmann
Sunday, November 2, 2008 01:38:36 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
Andy, if you continue to be this rational you are going to have a hard time with other Jesus people.
I don't. That's part of my problem. I don't get along with non-Jesus people because I look at this world logically and see the footprints of a designer. And I don't get along with Jesus people because I refuse to stop using logic and honesty.

BTW- I don't want to steal your thunder, but I think I know who you are voting for, and I think it's interesting that no one in the media is excited at the prospect of him being the first black President.
You can see if you are right tomorrow morning ;)


Erik
Sunday, November 2, 2008 02:43:32 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
I look at this world logically and see the footprints of a designer.


I can fix that.


Janice
Sunday, November 2, 2008 06:52:38 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com Andy,

I would plead with you to check out a website I put together with some friends last week called: www.onebabyonevote.com and let me know what you think. It asks and answers the top ten questions on this issue for pro life voters that are potentially voting for a pro choice candidate.

49 million Americans have been killed since 1973. 25 million of them would be eligible to vote - Last election was decided by 3 million votes - what if those 25 million were allowed to vote - It would be a landslide for the Pro Life candidates.

To answer some of your questions:

1. Can A Christian Vote For A Pro-Choice Candidate? Not in this presidential election - Obama has said clearly that he will do everything he can to make sure abortion is available to every women including supporting making you as a Christian taxpayer - pay for it. He has said the first thing he will do is pass the Freedom of Choice act which will potentially repeal all of the over 500 restrictions currently on the books such as parental notification, 24 hour waiting periods, partial abortion ban, etc.

2. The presidant doesn't matter - Untrue - the next president will definately be appointing atleast one Supreme Court judge and they are very opposite on what kind of judge should be in place on the supreme court. Also as stated above, if Obama is elected he will strip away the restrictions that have been causing the numbers to go down - finally - by pushing the FOCA.

3& 4. God's not that Pro Life - Hmmm....Let's see Mary was a single pregnant mom tat chose to have Jesus. The bible says I knitted you in your mothers womb....and let's see Commandment #5 - Thou shall not kill....I could go on but I'll stop there Exodus? Jesus' death and resurection brought a new covenant.


5. Ridiculous double standard - Maybe you are not aware that Obama and McCain both support the death penalty so your point about death penalty is mute. Personally I am Pro life in all forms and against the death penalty. Also the death penalty effects hundreds of people who have committed heineous crimes yet aortion kills millions of innocent Americans - very different.

6. Born vs Unborn?
Can you really trust someone who thinks that even children who have been born alive after an abortion should be denied medical treatment. I cannot believe that someone who believes that (and voted 4 times over several years to back that up) will genuinely care more for the born. Both sides have different ways of helping the born but Obama doesn't have a better way that could possibly balance his views on abortion.

7. Conclusion - all rhetoric aside if Jesus was at your dinner table, could you look him inthe eye and say that you are voting for a man who is not only pro choice but wants to defend abortion at all stages even after a baby has been born - all 9 months and then some? I firmly believe that Jesus could never vote for Obama....

Please check out www.onebabyonevote.com and let me know what you think?

Peace
Janice


Erik
Sunday, November 2, 2008 07:37:31 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
Let's see Mary was a single pregnant mom tat chose to have Jesus
yeah, and she was a rape victim, too. So there goes that loophole.


Andy Borgmann
Sunday, November 2, 2008 10:48:33 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
all rhetoric aside if Jesus was at your dinner table, could you look him inthe eye and say that you are voting for a man who is not only pro choice but wants to defend abortion at all stages even after a baby has been born
If Jesus were at my dinner table I wouldn't have the arrogance to tell him who I was voting for. Instead, I would ask him who He wants me to vote for. And just like the taxes to Caesar question, I bet his answer wouldn't be what we all expect.

Maybe you are not aware that Obama and McCain
Than if you are truly pro-life, than neither are qualified.

49 million Americans have been killed since 1973
How many people have died of starvation around the world since 1973? 5.9 million died this year alone. Another 10.1 million die every year from treatable disease. That's 16 million per year. If we were truly pro-life we would be more concerned with this than the 1.2 million who will be aborted this year.

The bible says I knitted you in your mothers womb....and let's see Commandment #5 - Thou shall not kill....I could go on but I'll stop there Exodus?

Also, you quoted me all the scripture that supported your claims, but ignored all the ones that don't. Keep in mind God had Joshua kill the tribes living in the land of Israel. Then he had Babylon kill many of the Jews - HIS chosen people. I am not saying that God is pro-choice or pro-murder, but like I said, God is not that pro-life.


The Last Cainanite
Sunday, November 2, 2008 11:46:20 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com Interesting piece Andy, as usual. I often find your posts much more insightful that your boss's.

But I disagree with "president doesn't matter". You rightly say that even if Roe were overturned it would go to the states and many would chose to keep abortion legal (and it would be a cold day in Hell that a human life amendment would pass).
But the president has other influence. Partial Birth Abortion ban was passed by Congress in the 90s but was vetoed by President Clinton. The new president could decide on things like taxpayer funding of abortions.
So president matters here as he does in myriad other issues that the federal government is involved in.


Andy Borgmann
Monday, November 3, 2008 09:20:41 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
But I disagree with "president doesn't matter"...
No you're probably right on that one. I probably over-stated that point to make a point that the President isn't the only factor working in that situation. Also, that the people of faith have let the Republican party pigeon-hole them into their party with this one issue. And I think after 8 years of Bush we would realize it didn't make that big of a difference on this topic.


Chris Spurgeon
Tuesday, November 4, 2008 09:14:35 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com I read an interesting article and I really wish I would have saved it because it would be a good reference here. But it pretty much brought into play the fact that Republicans can ALWAYS count on the Christian vote and they rely on the "pro-life" vote for everything. So I think it to be interesting that you bring this to point.

Another interesting thing that I see is that it may sound bad but if someone has better views of everything else, are we wrong for voting for 95% of their views even if the 5% left is the pro-life issue?


Lisa P
Wednesday, November 12, 2008 04:04:28 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com Each of us has our own perspective and ideas regarding a situation. However, if we will just carefully analyze its consequences, then we can make possible solutions. I am expecting that American people truly deliberated on the current issues before casting their vote in the November 4th election. I’m sure some have studied more whether to take out a payday advance than what the issues are in the election. For instance, check out “The Howard Stern Show” and listen to this brief audio clip that was recently posted. Roving Reporter Sal roamed the streets in Harlem, New York to acquire opinions from men and women, determining whether they supported Barack Obama or John McCain as President. In actuality, the purpose was to determine whether African-Americans would automatically vote for Obama simply because he’s black. By taking McCain’s policies and disguising it as Obama’s, Sal discovered shocking responds. He discussed issues like the pro-life argument, stem cell research, the war in Iraq and who Sarah Palin is – placing McCain’s positions to Obama's. He gets many of them to admit they support Obama regardless of what his policies are. This activity has really exposed the ugly truth of some of our ignorance of the issues. I just hope that people really thought about the real problems when casting their vote for the presidential election. http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/a-fast-cash-payday-advance-saved-my-wifes-stupid-cats/


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Description
Andy's blog aims to be like a Scrubs episode, mixed with a Chuck Klosterman column, centered around the topic of faith. It is open, honest, raw, and a little embarrassing. It is a place to discuss religion, politics, ministry, pop culture, and well, just life - especially focused on the time of life we call our 20s!

Andy is the Executive Producer of The Allen Hunt Show; a progressive (in the literal sense), talk radio show based in Atlanta, GA aimed at bringing faith back into the public discussion. Andy enjoys travel, aviation, web design, politics, friends, and faith. He holds that the secret to a full life is loving God and loving people - which he fails at constantly.

Andy grew up in Fort Wayne, IN. He now lives in Alpharetta, GA.

More information about Andy can be found at www.2timothy42.org or Andy's Facebook.

P.S. As has been mentioned on air, Andy is horrible at grammar and spelling. Please excuse any mistakes, trust me, he's sorry.


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