Andy Borgmann's Blog
Where The Producer Gets the Mic
Next: Andy Just Called the Cops On His Neighbors...Give That Guy A Klondike Bar Previous: Fort Wayne: The Case Against Universal Healthcare
7 Deadly Sins: Great Movie, Awful Theology
The Seven Deadly Sins: Great Movie, Awful TheologySince January, people always come up / email / send messenger pigeon to me saying, "can you believe Allen became Catholic." And I always say, "for those of us who know Allen, it really wasn't that much of a surprise." And I can attest that since becoming Catholic, not much has changed.1

One thing that has changed: Allen has increased his use of the phrase the "seven deadly sins" exactly2 834%.

The seven deadly sins make for a great movie3 but awful theology. The ranking of sin itself is determinental to a true understanding of grace and redemption.

The Catholic church has taught for years there are two categories of sins: venial and mortal. Venial being your light everyday sin that must be easy for God to forgive.4 Mortal, or deadly, being the stuff God must have to work at to forgive you.5

But it isn't just the Catholics. We all do it. Please rank with your best Protestant Theology from most to least likely to be shamed.
  1. Worked everyday of the week
  2. Looked at pornography
  3. Thought of myself better than the homeless man
  4. Lied to a friend about plans
  5. Cheated on a spouse
  6. Used the words God Damn It
  7. Disrespected a parent on national radio
  8. Downloaded MP3s illegally
  9. Used Ecstasy recreationally


My guess is you would rank it: 5-9-2-7-4-6-3-8-1

If I came to you and said, "hey, I was just really busy this last week. Boss really riding me. Worked every single day of the week." Would you even think there was anything wrong with that?

Now let's say I cheat on my wife.6  Now let's say I regularly sleep with my girlfriend.7 Now let's say I came to you and said, "hey, for the last five years I have had a sex buddy. We have no real relationship, but you know, we both have needs, and we both get pretty stressed out, so you know, from time to time we are 'friends with benefits'." Tell me you would not think differently in this case?

The point. We all rank sin. But does God?

The way I read it, there is no goody-two-shoes in the Bible.8

Paul, killed thousands.

Peter, denied his relationship to Jesus when Jesus needed him the most.

David, slept with Bathsheba, tried to cover it up, murdered her husband.

Abraham prostituted his wife for safety.

Name one person in the Bible who actually lives up to a sanctified life.

Heck, even sweet Ruth seduced Boaz on the threshing floor.

Do any of these sound like your pastor? Better yet, let's say your pastor did any of this, do you think he would keep his leadership position?

The modern Church has missed out on being apart of the story of redemption and grace for thousands of years. And it is all due to the fact we have an erroneous, sanitized view of redemption and it starts with the ranking of sin.
Comments
Dave in IA
Monday, July 21, 2008 10:23:25 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com Andy,
Sorry but you in correctly described
the churches teaching on Mortal sin.
"Mortal, or deadly, being the stuff God must have to work at to forgive you." Go to
"http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/
pt3sect1chpt1art8.htm" for the answers.

Allen please fact check your guy.

Dave


Erik
Monday, July 21, 2008 10:40:36 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com I've had lots of fun with Allen over his conversion but I have to say that it's probably a good thing. Catholicism, with it's subjective, whim-based theology and de facto polytheism, makes a nice halfway house between real Christianity and the agnosticism that may ultimately save his soul.


Andy Borgmann
Monday, July 21, 2008 10:47:26 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
Sorry but you in correctly described the churches teaching on Mortal sin. "Mortal, or deadly, being the stuff God must have to work at to forgive you."
Dave, welcome to my blog. I have a very sarcastic sense of humor, and that is all that was. Trust me, I assure you that I do not truly believe that the Catholic church teaches that mortal sins are harder for God to forgive. Only trying to illustrate the ridiculousness of ranking sins through sarcastic exaggeration.

Allen please fact check your guy.
Allen doesn't fact check me (evident in my horrendous spelling and grammar), nor does he limit what I can and cannot write about. Half the time he doesn't even know what I am writing about.

makes a nice halfway house between real Christianity and the agnosticism that may ultimately save his soul.
I knew it was coming. But I did not realize that you thought Catholicism was any better than Protestantism. Interesting...


Erik
Monday, July 21, 2008 11:52:17 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
Catholicism was any better than Protestantism
I don't necessarily, just more efficacious in this instance. I actually don't think either religion is particularly bad but I do think they impede spiritual growth with their ready-made answers to all of life's questions.



Sarah Elwer
Monday, July 21, 2008 04:40:38 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com Okay so I was totally ready to write you this whole thing about how I don't think that we can rank sin and so on and so forth... and then I made it to your last little section there, and now I have nothing to write! :)

However, just for fun, what do you think about I Cor 6:18-20, that talks about sins against your body as being different then other sins?

Also, Adam just brought up the point that in actuality, it’s not that we judge some sins too harshly, but more that we don’t judge some sins harshly enough.


Andy Borgmann
Tuesday, July 22, 2008 09:36:19 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
However, just for fun, what do you think about 1Cor 6:18-20, that talks about sins against your body as being different then other sins?
You just had to throw that one in there ;)

As I look through the entire context of that verse, I don't see a ranking here. I see an emphasis being made to stress that Paul's theology that allowed for the Jews to eat pork and "other unclean" food does not get to apply to sexuality. Remember Paul argued that it wasn't really a sin to eat "unclean" food, just a spiritual preference.

Sexual immorality was a sin and therefore he is saying that sexual sin goes beyond just a spiritual preference.

Also, Adam just brought up the point that in actuality, it’s not that we judge some sins too harshly, but more that we don’t judge some sins harshly enough.
I'll give Adam bonus points at least for being consistent. But again I ask, who was the great moral example of the Bible? Do we not seem to fundamentally miss the point that we are part of a redemptive story and therefore should humble ourselves to the thought that we are no better than David, or Abraham, or Ruth, or Peter?


Sarah Elwer
Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:12:42 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com I would hope that thru the grace of God I would not consider myself better than someone because of some sin in their life. Humility is hard sometimes... but you are correct - Praise God we are part of his redemptive story! The best example I ever heard (I think) of what it is like to be a part of God's redemptive story goes like this:

The person that was speaking was talking about David and being a "man after God's own heart". He said, say you graph out David's sin and growth on a graph, does the graph keep going up? Despite the downfalls and mess ups in his life does the line keep recovering and heading up? Here's the valley where he did this wrong and here's the valley where he ran from this person and so on, but then he said if we lay a ruler on the graph, his "heart trend" keeps being a heart trend towards the Lord... thus the Lord says about a man with all sorts of issues that would get him kicked out of the church today, that indeed he was a "Man after God's heart" because it's what he kept going back to.

I just hope I can be that wise about handling sin when it comes to people in my life.


The Last Cainanite
Tuesday, July 22, 2008 03:16:44 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
The seven deadly sins make for a great movie3 but awful theology. The ranking of sin itself is determinental to a true understanding of grace and redemption.


I think viewing all "sins" as equal is a bad moral system, no matter your theology. It means raping a woman is no worse than sleeping with your girlfriend (or, in your case Andy, sleeping with your special girl friend) or that getting angry with that incompetent zit-faced cashier at Publix is the same as unloading a 10 gauge into his chest.
Obviously there is something very wrong with that picture.


Now let's say I came to you and said, "hey, for the last five years I have had a sex buddy. We have no real relationship, but you know, we both have needs, and we both get pretty stressed out, so you know, from time to time we are 'friends with benefits'." Tell me you would not think differently in this case?


You wish!
Seriously though, what would be wrong with such a mutually enjoyable setup?
Who would the sin be against? Your friend? But no, she is as willing and enthusiastic participant as you are? God?


The point. We all rank sin. But does God?


What logical reason would he have not to? It does not make any sense to treat every transgression equally.


David, slept with Bathsheba, tried to cover it up, murdered her husband


Even if that story is historical (we know little about a historical David, for more information read the excellent David and Solomon by Israel Finkelstein and Neil-Asher Silberman) what is the point? That God would not have dealt with David any differently had he not sent Uriah to his death (and only incurred the lesser sin of adultery)? But you haven't shown that god had anything to do with it. More than any sort of divine intervention this story corroborates Mel Brooks' line that "it's good to be the king". :)


Heck, even sweet Ruth seduced Boaz on the threshing floor.


And Boaz praised her virtue for it. :)

I really don't see how this list strengthens your case. If anything it shows that clear ranking of wrongdoings is essential to any meaningful moral system. Otherwise every notion of morality or ethics itself is made mockery of.


Andy Borgmann
Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:02:58 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com LC, you bring up an interesting point, and to a large degree I think you are correct when it comes to the legal enforcement of laws from a societal perspective. There has to be different consequences for the gravity of the crime.

But to step out of law/society and enter into theology, I can't say that I see the theological basis for the case of gravity of sin.

The audacity of grace and redemption is a hard one for many of us to swallow; both for those who have done wrong to us and for ourselves as well.

But it is precisely that audacity that redeemed David, Abraham, and Paul (assuming they were true historical people ;) )

But LC, I'll give it to you that you make a very good point.


Dave in IA
Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:22:57 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com Andy,

Point taken on humor, it's harder to
pick up on blogs. Unfortunately, as you
well know, your humor turns into anti-
catholic evidence for some. I just wanted
to set the record straight.


Andy Borgmann
Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:31:41 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
Unfortunately, as you well know, your humor turns into anti- catholic evidence for some.
That's why I also called out Protestants in the blog.

I am not Catholic, but I have no beeft with Catholicism and I definitley would hold that Catholics are just as Christian as Protestants.

Sure, there are some theological errors I think Catholicism teaches. But I also think that about Protestantism as well.

Whenever mortal, sinful humans are involved in the process, there are bound to be some mistakes.


Join the Discussion and Post A Comment
Name:
Email Address
(mandatory - always private
also will be used for gravatar)
:
Website/Blog (optional):
(Standard HTML Tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,i,li,ol,ul - abusers will be logged and blocked)

What's Andy Up To?

Description
Andy is the Executive Producer of The Allen Hunt Show; a progressive, talk radio show based in Atlanta, GA aimed at bringing faith back into the public discussion. Andy enjoys travel, aviation, web design, politics, friends, and faith. He holds that the secret to a full life is loving God and loving people - which he fails at constantly.

Andy's blog is a place to discuss religion, politics, ministry, education, and well, just life - especially focused on the time of life we call our 20s! It is cross-post at The Allen Hunt Show, and, in a more limited fashion, at Newsvine.

Andy grew up in Fort Wayne, IN. He now lives in Alpharetta, GA.

More information about Andy can be found at www.2timothy42.org or Andy's Virb.

P.S. As has been mentioned on air, Andy is horrible at grammar and spelling. Please excuse any mistakes, trust me, he's sorry.


RSS
Posts: RSS 2.0 | Atom
Google Reader
Comments:
     RSS 2.0 | Atom

Email Subscribe

Powered by FeedBurner


Calendar
<<    <    Jul 2008    >    >>
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
  1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31