I like Dinesh. He's a smart guy and a good writer. I have a hardcover copy of "The End of Racism" at home. The Christianity book is a joke though. Like apologists of every stripe he is unable to use reason and evidence and is forced into ethereal Kantian mystical BS to back up his claims. He's probably the classiest of the defenders of the faith, not a cheap salesman like Strobel or Josh McDowell. Still, this book is not an argument really. It's not designed to convince anyone. It's just another entry in the genre of Christian Book & Gift novelties, designed not to be read but to be displayed in order to reassure the faithful.

First off, I would never say "Christianity is obsolete", or "there is no God", etc., because I think the only problem with Christianity are many who call themselves Christians. One symptom of them is what you pointed out, they are "intimidated by non-believers' questions". Now, if you have faith, and it's real, and sincere, and not only something one's been told to believe, then the last thing in the world that would intimidate one of faith, is someone asking them questions about it, WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD IT?

OH,..... unless perhaps they have more invested in protecting or proving their status as the ONLY game in town that's got the "Real Truth", and are the ONLY ones gonna go to heaven!

Allen, I think if God meant for his children to be allowed only ONE path to eternal life (cause it can't be a path "back to him", because he & we have never "left"), it would be quite a cruel joke, for it would mean that BILLIONS of loving, good people, who led spirit-filled lives would end up burning in hell for eternity.

It would mean that YOU, personally, came very close to failing to make it, since hey, for 95% of your life you were on the "wrong" path, and only very recently found the "right" one! Do you not think that your own story, to go from nearly 20 years of being a devout Methodist, & not just a layman, but a MINISTER, with far more biblical training than 99% of most people.

Yet, despite all those years of telling thousands of people, from your position of stature & "spiritual credibility", that they need to follow that path, you now have flipped the script, and now it's the Catholics' version of "The Word" that is the ONLY correct one.

If even clergyman & proselytizers can get it wrong, for most of their lives, how in God's name (literally) can the masses put their full faith & total commitment, risking eternal hell and damnation if they choose wrongly, behind these fallible leaders & teachers of the faith?

See, THAT is the problem I have with "Christianity", the kind as taught BY men, while I have no problem with the "Christianity" if you wish to call Christ's teachings that.

What he said is holy truth, as for the rest of the books of the Bible, and for sure, the interpretations (which tens of thousands of denominations) of mere mortal men, no matter what they designate themselves as, well, I think placing one's eternal fate in their hands is ludicrous....

How did you face those whom you had ministered for all those years, and tell them the path you taught them, and counseled them to follow, was really, in your heart, a mistake? Doesn't that show you, about as clear as possible, the real danger of teaching that any one way is the only true one???

Steven,

In my ministry as a Methodist pastor, I did not try to make people Methodist but rather helped them become Christians. There is a large difference.

Methodists are Christians; they do not think they are the only group of Christians. Nor did my teaching suggest that.

A helpful analogy. There are 4 Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Each has a very different emphasis and angle on Jesus. But all 4 are true and helpful.

You may prefer John as your most helpful version of the truth of Christ. I prefer Mark. Both John and Mark are true, just different emphases.

Now that I am no longer a pastor, I am simply one man who fits best in the Catholic Church. I do not speak for the Catholic Church nor do I try to make people Catholics. Not my goal at all.

I am simply one man having a conversation about real life and faith with anyone and everyone who so desires.

In order to be a good pastor you have to be a good politician first and foremost. Allen is not dishonest but he has a gift for spinning his contradictory and incompatible religious beliefs in a way that makes them seem reasonable. He says he fits better in the Catholic church, and given his analogy with Gospels, one wonders if he means to say that all denominations have an equal claim to truth, and it's just a matter of which one you feel more comfortable with. This is good politicking...like when Larry King has a rabbi, a priest, and a minister on and they all get along very genially and say, "We all worship the same God..."
It's a nice idea but it's not true. It's just a nice veneer that makes people feel good. Poke around in doctrine a bit and things get very ugly very quickly.

At the risk of seeming Kenneth-esque: how does one go to heaven? Can you lose your salvation? What about those who have committed mortal sin and are unrepentant? The Church maintains that if you use birth control you will go to hell. I am not exaggerating. Look it up. Is that true? False? Is there some way to know? Maybe these aren't important enough questions.

Again, my goal really is not to discuss Christian theology as the conversation is not always that interesting. I would much rather talk about how we have treated Michael Vick, who filed for bankruptcy this week and still faces state charges, versus how we have treated his dogs, with more than a million dollars of rehab. That will be on the show this weekend.
But, it might be helpful to note, Steven and Erik, that the Catholic Church recognizes Protestants as Christians. Separated, but still brothers and sisters nonetheless (Cf. Benedict's statement last year). Differences? yes. Christians, still yes.
Moreover, the Catholic Church does not teach that you will go to hell for using contraception. The theology and teaching is much more nuanced and thoughtful than that. To understand that fully will take some time and study rather than merely lifting one or two sentences out of 2000 years of Catholic thought. But many people are not willing to invest the time to really investigate why the Church opposes contraception and what it does to one's relationship with the Creator.
Erik, if you would like to read more, I am happy to refer you to some good sites and readings that go into that in detail.

not to discuss Christian theology as the conversation is not always that interesting. I would much rather talk about how we have treated Michael Vick,

Not interesting? What happens when we die and where we spend eternity, whether in heaven or hell- I consider this interesting. Even more interesting than Michael Vick. But I guess I'm shallow like that.

Moreover, the Catholic Church does not teach that you will go to hell for using contraception

From Catholic.com (and declared Nihil Obstat- free of doctrinal and moral error):

deliberate acts of contraception are always gravely sinful, which means that it is mortally sinful if done with full knowledge and deliberate consent (CCC 1857). This teaching cannot be changed and has been taught by the Church infallibly.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

the souls of those who depart in mortal sin...go down immediately into hell.

What am I missing here?

You are right. Matters of eternity are at the center of real life and faith. Heaven and hell. Salvation. All the things we discussed on the "Is George Carlin in heaven?" show just two weeks ago. That is why we discussed it.

You're missing the heart of God and the heart of the Christian faith: repentance and forgiveness. Even mortal sins are forgivable.

That is part of what we will discuss regarding Michael Vick this weekend.

It all fits together.

For some good reading on contraception and the Catholic view of life, check out some of the work of Helen Alvare. She is a law professor at George Mason and focuses on family and life issues from a faith perspective.

She is a much more qualified commentator than I am on these things.

Maybe I missed it, but how does one go to heaven? Believe in Jesus and make him Lord of your life? Just lord or lord AND savior? Can salvation be 'lost'? If I asked Andy would I get the same answers to these questions?

check out some of the work of Helen Alvare.

I
Helen Alvare notwithstanding, the Church's position on this is clear. It's also the official position of the Church that one who persists in committing mortal sin is to be denied communion. That means anyone practicing birth control should be denied communion. Of course this rarely happens since nobody really believes this stuff anyway. At least the dimwitted Baptists have the courage of their convictions.

I've read Dinesh D'Souza's book about Christianity. He is definitely a very smart man and I wish he could have used that intellectual capacity for something more useful. I am afraid in his case we did end up with a smart devil, to bastardize CS Lewis. ;)

His modus operandi seems to be to take a fact or a set of facts and through a series of non sequiturs draws a wrong conclusion from them.
One good example is stating that societies such as China or India are modernizing at a rapid rate. He also states that people in these countries are readily embracing Christianity. Then he pulls a mental conjuring trick and hopes that the reader won't notice the smoke and mirrors. He ends up claiming Christianity, far from being an outdated religion, is particularly popular in most modern parts of the world. That's obviously bogus as China and India are definitely still far behind the West when it comes to modernity and much of these countries is outright backwards.

He also sometimes quite simply makes stuff up. Some of the most blatant lies is calling Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich 'atheist' as well as Latin American or Asian communists. Hitler himself was Catholic and Nazi ideology was peppered with references to God and Christian theology. You just need to read Mein Kampf to get a taste.

Latin American communism is steeped in Liberation Theology. Ideology of North Korean system is communism mixed with Korean divine king religious traditions, so also hardly atheistic.

There is only a link between socialism/communism and atheism in Europe. So-called scientific socialism was developed by Karl Marx and Firedrich Engels in the 19th century at the same time when European intellectuals started rejecting old religious doctrines and increasingly embraced agnosticism and atheism. So rather than there being some intellectual link between communism and godlessness it is more a historical coincidence. That is also obvious when you look at much more religiously flavored forms of leftist thought that I have already mentioned. Another thing worth mentioning is that atrocities committed by officially atheist regimes were not done in the name of atheism or to further atheism (unlike atrocities by theocracies or religious movements) but to aid the communist movement itself.

To get back to the question raised in your post Allen: yes, I do think Christianity is obsolete. It is definitely an outdated religion and a poor fit for our day and age. That said, obsolete things sometimes take a long time to completely die out completely, but the handwriting is already on the wall, make no mistake about it.

By the way, Mein Kampf is available online in English translation:
http://www.greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf

A Leseprobe (sample):

The Jew himself is the best example of the kind of product which this religious training evolves. His life is of this world only and his mentality is as foreign to the true spirit of Christianity as his character was foreign to the great Founder of this new creed two thousand years ago. And the Founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God; because then, as always, they used religion as a means of advancing their commercial interests. But at that time Christ was nailed to the Cross for his attitude towards the Jews; whereas our modern Christians enter into party politics and when elections are being held they debase themselves to beg for Jewish votes. They even enter into political intrigues with the atheistic Jewish parties against the interests of their own Christian nation.
[...]
The greatness of Christianity did not arise from attempts to make compromises with those philosophical opinions of the ancient world which had some resemblance to its own doctrine, but in the unrelenting and fanatical proclamation and defence of its own teaching.
[...]
How devoid of ideals and how ignoble is the whole contemporary system! The fact that the churches join in committing this sin against the image of God, even though they continue to emphasize the dignity of that image, is quite in keeping with their present activities. They talk about the Spirit, but they allow man, as the embodiment of the Spirit, to degenerate to the proletarian level. Then they look on with amazement when they realize how small is the influence of the Christian Faith in their own country and how depraved and ungodly is this riff-raff which is physically degenerate and therefore morally degenerate also. To balance this state of affairs they try to convert the Hottentots and the Zulus and the Kaffirs and to bestow on them the blessings of the Church. While our European people, God be praised and thanked, are left to become the victims of moral depravity, the pious missionary goes out to Central Africa and establishes missionary stations for negroes. Finally, sound and healthy--though primitive and backward--people will be transformed, under the name of our 'higher civilization', into a motley of lazy and brutalized mongrels.

Doesn't quite sound like something a godless atheist or even an agnostic would write. I also thought the phrase "our Christian nation" was very telling vis-a-vis the Christian Right who like nothing better than to pontificate about "our Christian nation".

Oh, another thing that irks me about Dinesh D'Souza is that he, despite knowing virtually nothing about science, thinks he can render better judgment on implications of modern scientific discoveries on existence and nature of god than scientists themselves. In that regard he is not unlike Allen himself.

Sorry for posting a third reply, but there is no edit function --> something for Andy to work on.

I agree with the LC, although I may be more charitable in that I think the Christian metaphor is powerful and useful. I'd argue for a Christian atheism that preserves the useful parts of the myth. That's the only way it can survive I think.

Leave it to Allen Hunt to choose a Catholic (D'Souza) as a source for his argument. Of course, Christianity will never be obsolete because Jesus Christ, the author of life and Creator of all living and nonliving things, is still alive. Now, as for the Roman Catholic Church, that is another story. It has never been viable and is obsolete and is irrelevant. It carries on the pagan past, clinging to a piece of bread (the "Real Presence") as a source of life while neglecting the One who gives life eternal - Jesus Christ. Is this Christian worship or pagan? I sent the following to William Donohue, head of the Catholic League, after reading the following on their website concerning a student who stole a "wafer" from Catholic Mass. First the Catholic League's response and then my message dealing with the Eucharist according to Catholic Tradition:

http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1458
FLORIDA STUDENT ABUSES EUCHARIST

To protest student fees for religious services at the University of Central Florida (UCF), a student walked out of a campus Mass on June 29 with the Eucharist. Webster Cook, a student senator, finally returned the Host this past weekend. Catholic League president Bill Donohue offered the following remarks today:
“For a student to disrupt Mass by taking the Body of Christ hostage—regardless of the alleged nature of his grievance—is beyond hate speech. That is why the UCF administration needs to act swiftly and decisively in seeing that justice is done. All options should be on the table, including expulsion.”
Contact UCF president John C. Hitt at jhitt@mail.ucf.edu

---------------
My message titled: The new hate crime: Stealing the wafer god

The bulldog for the Catholic Church, Mr. Bill Donohue, is calling the “taking” of the Body of Christ – “hostage” – and has included expulsion as a plan of action for disciplining this frightened student. You may ask what could be so wrong with this prank. Here is a little background on the Eucharist according to Catholic Tradition. In the above story, the reporter from Fox 35 states the Eucharist is, a “small bread wafer” that to Catholics is, “symbolic of the Body of Christ.” The key word here is, “symbolic.” However, the RCC has taken what is to be just that, symbolic, and has made the wafer/species into a god. Yes, that is what it is. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
Worship of the Eucharist. In the liturgy of the Mass we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine by, among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoration of the Lord. “The Catholic Church has always offered and still offers to the sacrament of the Eucharist the cult of adoration, not only during Mass, but also outside of it, reserving the consecrated hosts with the utmost care, exposing them to the solemn veneration of the faithful, and carrying them in procession.” (CCC 1378)
To the Catholic “faithful,” the Eucharist – i.e. the Real Presence – is truly Jesus Christ. It is to be worshipped. The bread is to be worshipped and adored in the cult of adoration with “solemn veneration” by the faithful. Notice, I do not say He (Jesus Christ) is worshipped. This “cult of adoration” is just that: a cult immersed in pagan ritual and refinement and a slap in the face to Jesus Christ, who “put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.” (Hebrews 9:26) The wafer god Rome chooses to worship is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It’s the god of the dead, the god of lies and the god of this world – Satan. Do not partake in a Catholic Mass. It is designed to increase Rome’s hold on those who are enslaved by her power. Turn to Jesus Christ who “was offered once to bear the sins of many.” (Heb 9:28)

It's like a Chick tract without the cartoons.

Just for fun, go read John 6 and count just how many times Jesus adamantly states that we must consume his body and blood to have life within us. Why do you think he said it sooo many times? (As a mom of children who must be told several times, I can attest to the fact that people can be thick sometimes.) If Jesus is your Lord and Savior, why won't you trust what He says? Or do you just pick and choose what YOU want to believe?
Also, while you have your Bible out:
Ex 12:8, 46 - Paschal lamb had to be eaten
Jn 1:29 Jesus called "Lamb of God"
1 Cor 5:7 Jesus called "paschal lamb who has been sacrificed"
1 Cor 2:14 - 3:4 explains what "the flesh" means in John 6:63
Peace.

we must consume his body and blood to have life within us.

It's just a metaphor. He also said "I am the light of the world." But that doesn't mean he lives in the sun or that we can read by him at night. Take this stuff literally you kill the metaphor and the religion with it.

Now, Erik, you didn't play the game correctly. You didn't follow the directions and count. How could it be a metaphor when he said it so many times in a row?
But, you help prove my point that we can't cast stones at the Israelites wandering around in the desert for so many years.... we tend to be thick-headed and only see our own perspective.
Furthermore, the whole question of "who goes to heaven" sort of rubs me the wrong way. Really, there is no point in asking any mortal that question. God has the full equation for that and last I checked in the Help Wanted section of the paper, He wasn't trying to find a replacement.

How could it be a metaphor when he said it so many times in a row?

a metaphor x 10= a metaphor. He thought we were agile enough to grasp this concept.

the whole question of "who goes to heaven" sort of rubs me the wrong way. Really, there is no point in asking any mortal that question.

So you are saying there is no way for us to know how we can go to heaven when we die?

I am not sure that the Christian eucharist was originally meant to be metaphorical, as it probably derives from pagan eucharistic practices, most notably that of Osiris.
Osiris also has a resurrection story which is much more interesting than the resurrection of Jesus. It involves Osiris being dismembered by his evil brother Set with his parts being scattered all around the world. Goddess Isis, Osiris' wife, fervently searched for Osiris' parts and found all but the penis (which was swallowed by a fish or a crocodile) which she had to remake. She could bring Osiris to life for one day of the year only and annual Nile flooding was chalked up to Isis' tears after finding her husband dead in their bed the next morning.

Isis has often been portrayed with their infant son Horus and it has been suggested (quite convincingly) that that was the origin of the Madonna and Child iconography that has become so popular especially in Catholicism.

Could Jesus (as god) be just a judaeification (and desexualization) of Osiris and Horus?

"So you are saying there is no way for us to know how we can go to heaven when we die?"

No, Eric, I am saying that no mortal man or woman is fit to answer the question because it is not our place to judge. And frankly I don't make it my business to figure out who is going to heaven or not... it is hard enough just keeping myself in line. Walking the path that I was taught is the way to get there. (By the way, 10 is not the correct answer.)

"I am not sure that the Christian eucharist was originally meant to be metaphorical..."

Well, then, why muddy the waters? I learned early that if I wasn't sure of something, sit back, watch, and listen for awhile.

OK so please answer the question then: how does one go to heaven?

"Just for fun, go read John 6 and count just how many times Jesus adamantly states that we must consume his body and blood to have life within us." - from :o

"Or do you just pick and choose what YOU want to believe?" - from :O

Miss, the Catholic Church is the cafeteria Church - picking and choosing as it pleases. Try reading verse 63 from John 6. What does Jesus say:

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

The woman at the well (John 4) asked for the "living water" that Jesus had. Was it water - physical water - from the well, H2O? No, it was living water that Jesus would give to those who believe in Him (i.e the Holy Spirit)

"Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?"
Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again (physical water, the same goes for the Eucharistic meal - bread, prepared by men - you eat every time you go to Mass), but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life."

You cannot receive the Spirit (the "living water") through Baptism as you believe. You cannot have life - eternal life - by living the sacramental life by receiving, for example, the Eucharist daily, monthly etc. Your Catechism says, the "Lord tied the forgiveness of sins to faith and Baptism" (CCC 977), yet states in CCC 978, the following:

"Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil."

"... Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one..."

Therefore, you need Penance in order to be saved, right. You need another work in order to be saved:

"It is through the sacrament of Penance that the baptized can be reconciled with God and with the Church:

"Penance has rightly been called by the holy Fathers "a laborious kind of baptism." This sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation for those who have fallen after Baptism, just as Baptism is necessary for salvation for those who have not yet been reborn." (CCC 980)

"Penance is necessary for salvation," and "Baptism is necessary for salvation" even though it ("the grace of Baptism") delivers "no one from all the weakness of nature."

What work should we believe in, the Catholic works - Baptism, Penance and the other sacraments - or in Him, Jesus Christ?

"Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him."

Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"

Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

"[That] you believe in Him whom He sent."

The Baptism of Catholicism was made obsolete nearly 2,000 years ago:

"And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

"John truly baptized with water...

...but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Lord, it's me your servant Erik. I just wanted to tell you Lord, if your listening, that if I don't get some soon I think I'm gonna lose my mind.
I know we haven't always gotten along, but if you could see your way to doing me this one favor, I promise I will start believing in you again. Thank you for your time. Please resume creating tsunamis or hiding people's car keys or whatever you do when you are not answering prayers. Amen.

"OK so please answer the question then: how does one go to heaven?"

Erik: Even though you often make fun of heaven's "owner" (if you will), I am sure He sees in you the same spark of curiosity and true inner desire that is apparent to the rest of us.
I have gleaned that you were once Christian, but with a major, crushing blow felt "fooled" by someone fairly important in your life. Perhaps you put them upon a pedestal and somehow they let you down. You got a glimpse of their sinful nature and it so crushed you that you threw away everything that they stood for. Christianity was part of that "trashed lot". You became a cynic. Because of your extreme intelligence and quick wit you have made a sport of trying to poke holes in religion.
The beautiful thing about you, though, is the fact that you maintain a very good sense of humor. Not like our other extremely intelligent friend LC who, despite the fact that he is surrounded by Truth, still wages an ugly, bloody war against the Catholic faith. He comes across (at least here, with his words) as a person filled with hate. Don't know if a Catholic pissed on his cornflakes one day, or if he was spoon-fed hatred for all things Catholic/Christian starting from a young age.
Getting back to your question, I will share with you my understanding of how to best answer it. I think we are all pre-programmed with a desire to be reunited with Our Lord. The "formula" I go by is faith + works encompassed by love. You are no idiot, no slouch when it comes to scripture, but just in case you want me to throw in a couple of scripture passages I will. (Jam 2:24 & 2:26, Gal 5:6, 1 Cor 13:2, Jn 14:15, Mt 19:16-17)
I see it this way: We are all invited to a really big party. Most of us want to present ourselves in the best way we can. Faith only is wearing a really great looking shirt. It is the perfect color, it fits just right, simply gorgeous. But if we don't have "works", we have no pants on. Nothing to cover our a** so to speak. (gotta love a double entendre)
I know this isn't the first time you have asked this question, nor will it be the last. Don't know if you are looking for an easier answer or a harder one. The important fact is that you ARE looking.
As cynical as you are, what shows through quite beautifully is that you have a strong desire and unanswered hunger. Because I happen to be Catholic and believe it to be the One, True faith, I would suggest that you go speak to a Catholic priest. Ask about RCIA classes. Be warned, though, (so as to not repeat what must have happened to you when you were Southern Baptist) that any "man of the cloth" is human and is not only subject to imperfection, but is more tempted by Satan. In other words, don't shoot the messenger.

I have gleaned that you were once Christian, but with a major, crushing blow felt "fooled" by someone fairly important in your life.

I appreciate the mythologizing but that's not how it happened. The Southern Baptists and Pentecostals I grew up with are the some of the finest people I've ever known. Rock stupid yes, but not bad folks. It was God I put on a pedestal.

I find this a lot with religious persons. They never assume that I examined the available evidence and found it lacking. No arguments about evidence, cause they lose every time. It's always a psychological question: "Why do you hate God? What happened to you that you lost faith?" etc.

Here is what happened to me: I found out it wasn't true. It's a scam, OMG. You are being lied to as well. My friend the Lutheran pastor tells me: "In my darker hours I find that the church is about money. It's about jobs. It's a system that wants to go on existing- people's livelihoods depend on it, even though most of what we teach is untrue."

I do appreciate your answering my question about heaven. There's a lot I could say here obviously. The Bible is contradictory and unclear and we could wrangle about faith/works for another 2000 years I think. But for any of it to be true you have to first accept that the Bible is reliable and authoritative. This can easily shown to be false.

Now I have just one more question:
Even if we forget the Bible and just deal with Church (capital C) doctrine- I've previously pointed out that the Church considers birth control of any kind to be a mortal sin. Does that mean if you die after having used birth control you will go to hell? Yes or no please.

"As cynical as you are, what shows through quite beautifully is that you have a strong desire and unanswered hunger. Because I happen to be Catholic and believe it to be the One, True faith, I would suggest that you go speak to a Catholic priest. Ask about RCIA classes." - from :o)mg

"speak to a Catholic priest"

Let's see, according to CCC 987, the Lord uses - "instruments" - "priests and sacraments... in order to efface our sins and give us the grace of justification."

"In the forgiveness of sins, both priests and sacraments are instruments which our Lord Jesus Christ, the only author and liberal giver of salvation, wills to use in order to efface our sins and give us the grace of justification" - CCC 987

Going to a Catholic priest is like making a pact with the Devil!

Nice - bad - advice :o)mg

See no evil, see no Rome!

"....the Church considers birth control of any kind to be a mortal sin. Does that mean if you die after having used birth control you will go to hell? Yes or no please."

Once again, I am not going to determine whether someone who uses birth control goes to heaven or hell. I refuse to sit in judgement.
I can tell you that a person is in mortal sin if they willingly know (as in malice aforethought) and commit a sin on purpose.
I will also share with you that as a Catholic who grew up in the 70's, a time when we could fill a thimble with the knowledge of the Chatechism we were taught (and still had room left over for a stiff drink!), I went to college and went a bit wild. By some miracle I met Mr. THE Right One (also Catholic), we dated for 4 years (a time when I was not only on birth control, but we were also living together) and were married. Since having children, I have made it a point to find out all I can about the faith that I am passing down to my children. My husband and I both came to have a much deeper appreciation for the Church and her teachings. (Which is why the Prodigal Son scripture means so much more to me as an adult than it ever did as a child.) Sadly, I am not really great at debating, so I know I am letting you down (as well as LC and Ken Daughtery) by not getting all frothed up and offended.
But, in any case, in learning more about the Church's teachings, I have been able to delve into the reason WHY birth control is frowned upon. It is a basic respect for human life. I am reminded of the Monty Python song (from the movie "Meaning of Life") Every Sperm is Sacred. Of course the British comedy troup was making fun of the Church, but when you study the Theology of the Body, you realize just how marvelous men and women are created. When you "back the truck up" and see things from their origin like that, you better understand why the Church has teachings such as No Birth Control.
Thankfully, I lived long enough to repent, make a good, honest confession, and am hopefully passing much more information along to my own children than was passed along to me so that their screw ups may not be as bad as my own. (Kenneth will probably nail my a** about the confession thing, but it doesn't change the facts.)
Additionally, and I guess I eluded to it before, a sin changes from Venial to Mortal when you KNOWINGLY commit it. If you were not completely formed (catechetically speaking), as I understand it, you have not committed a mortal sin.
Now, that being said, I DID know in college that pre-marital sex and birth control were not "Church approved activities". Which put me over into the Mortal sin category.
In any case, I know I have rambled, but I hope I have at least made a small bit of sense.

ps- Kenneth, put the CCC down and no one will get hurt.



(that was a joke, people)

"They never assume that I examined the available evidence and found it lacking."

So, is it that you don't believe anymore then? And if so, why do you waste your time here?
I certainly think if you are on a "mission" to spread your own "truth" that you would try to get a larger audience.
I think I asked this a couple of weeks ago... but if you don't believe in God, what the Hell is your point? I think it is more that you are angry with God for not having the same 'will' as you must have had once. Perhaps, if it is true to say that God let you down, you didn't get the desired results out of a prayer?
I know a lot of people get pissed at God when they lose a loved one. They have a "but I prayed for Mom to live and God took her anyway" boo hoo hoo. Like God does that to punish people. Wrong. (I realize I am just on a rant at this point, so don't think I am aiming this at you.) I lost my Dad 20 years ago, and guess what? It wasn't about what I wanted. When the rubber hit the road, it was between God and my dad. So it is with us all.

So, (stepping down from my mini soapbox and please excuse the tangent) which is it, you DO believe in God, or you NO LONGER do? And also, how exactly did God let you down?

nail my a**

what the Hell is your point

people get pissed at God

Enough, Miss Pottymouth. You are offending my tender sensibilities.

Though my face did flush, and pardon the trash talk, I didn't think your sensibilities were quite as tender as all that as I've been to your website, see?
(ie-picture of two women making out)

(ie-picture of two women making out)

I'm merely celebrating the first-flowerings of womanly love between two attractive young ladies.